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| POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? https://brainfiller.com/arcflashforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5603 |
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| Author: | bbaumer [ Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
I've been trying to obtain the available fault current for a few studies I am currently working on. As the years have gone by I have been finding it easier and easier to get this information. Even the most rural REMC's seem to be able to provide the data readily for me. Until now. The provider on my current project said they can provide the data but I'll have to pay for it up front. I said, ok, how much? Well, after 3 weeks of repeating the request they finally gave me a estimate of $186 per address I am requesting. Are you-all used to having to pay for this info? This is a first for me. Years ago I would have trouble with some providers, some were uncooperative and refused and some didn't know what I was talking about but none ever charged me for the data. Thoughts? |
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| Author: | wbd [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
I have not run into that issue yet. As you noted, it was more like the POCO refusing to provide the information and I did have to go to the PUC several times to get the information. In recent years, I started adding a statement in the expense section of a proposal stating that the utility charging for the information would be considered an expense that would be submitted for reimbursement. |
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| Author: | mayanees [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
No, I have never seen a Utility charge for the info. However, if they're going to give you everything then it's peanuts in the overall scope. Contrast this to a Utility located in Virginia who will not provide transformer nameplate impedance, and I know I'd rather pay the fee. My customer would rather pay the fee. It's the difference of 8 calories versus 20+ calories when covering the range of impedances that the transformer could be. I think this particular application was for a 225 kVA padmount. |
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| Author: | stevenal [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
mayanees wrote: No, I have never seen a Utility charge for the info. However, if they're going to give you everything then it's peanuts in the overall scope. Contrast this to a Utility located in Virginia who will not provide transformer nameplate impedance, and I know I'd rather pay the fee. My customer would rather pay the fee. It's the difference of 8 calories versus 20+ calories when covering the range of impedances that the transformer could be. I think this particular application was for a 225 kVA padmount. That Virginia utility is tasked with keeping the electrons moving, so that padmount will be quickly replaced when it burns out, most likely without any notice. |
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| Author: | bbaumer [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
Thanks for the responses so far. It was like pulling teeth just to get the estimate. If I didn't have to fill out the form committing to paying for it I wouldn't have worried too much but I had no idea if they were thinking $25, $2,500 or $25,000. Just couldn't gamble. They were very resistant to providing the estimate but finally relented after several requests. |
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| Author: | wilhendrix [ Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
It is likely this utility is regulated by a public commission. If so, I'd reach out to that commission and ask them if the utility can charge for this information? It's logical, that if you don't have any other way to get this information, it follows they must provide this to their customers (or customers representative) with basic data like the fault current. Alternately, you can ask for the impedance of the transformer or transformers for the sites. I've done that and I generally get "we don't have that information". If they give you that answer, you ask them to have a trouble man stop and get it for you. Why? Because you can't get that information because their transformers are locked and only they have access. You are forced to ask them for this information. Again, you don't have any choice which is why talking to the commission about this is very helpful. Neither of these requests is unreasonable. If the utility does not bother to publish the maximum available fault current for specific sites or transformers, then they need to provide you with that information free of charge. Oddly enough, if you contact the commission that controls the utility, you'll generally get answers. Commission members are usually elected by the public. They want you to vote for them again. |
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| Author: | Win Engineer [ Tue Aug 30, 2022 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
I am currently working on a study in California and SoCal Edison gets $400 for each service entrance to provide the fault current values. There are a few providers that charge for this information. |
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| Author: | mayanees [ Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: POCO charging a fee to provide available fault current? |
stevenal wrote: mayanees wrote: No, I have never seen a Utility charge for the info. However, if they're going to give you everything then it's peanuts in the overall scope. Contrast this to a Utility located in Virginia who will not provide transformer nameplate impedance, and I know I'd rather pay the fee. My customer would rather pay the fee. It's the difference of 8 calories versus 20+ calories when covering the range of impedances that the transformer could be. I think this particular application was for a 225 kVA padmount. That Virginia utility is tasked with keeping the electrons moving, so that padmount will be quickly replaced when it burns out, most likely without any notice. Replacement will take several hours so the client will know that it's been replaced. At that time the new nameplate would be used for the arc flash calcs. IEEE 1584 requires the use of actual nameplate data. I assume you work for a Utility? |
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